{"id":55,"date":"2008-06-03T16:00:55","date_gmt":"2008-06-03T21:00:55","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/blogs.law.harvard.edu\/games\/2008\/06\/03\/g4c2008-jim-gee-vs-eric-zimmerman\/"},"modified":"2013-09-26T14:40:12","modified_gmt":"2013-09-26T19:40:12","slug":"g4c2008-jim-gee-vs-eric-zimmerman","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/games\/2008\/06\/03\/g4c2008-jim-gee-vs-eric-zimmerman\/","title":{"rendered":"G4C2008: Jim Gee vs. Eric Zimmerman"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Gee: &#8220;World of complex systems that is biting us, and biting us bad.&#8221; e.g. peak oil =&gt; biofuel =&gt; no water \/ no food =&gt; failed states =&gt; end of global economy<\/p>\n<p>Zimmerman: industry (19th century), information (20th), the Ludic Century (21st century systems)<\/p>\n<p>Gee: Games not terribly good at delivering information, but at novel experiences: seeing the world in new ways. <!--more-->Can we do as well as the commercial sector in seeing the world differently? Games also as arch problem-solving spaces &#8212; essentially a continuous assessment.<\/p>\n<p>Zimmerman: what do we mean by &#8220;games for change&#8221;? What are the design strategies? Sim as &#8211; a <em>procedural <\/em>representation of a system.<\/p>\n<p>Gee: once you see that a game is a model, you can look behind it to critique the model.<\/p>\n<p>Zimmerman: but not necessarily a good model of everything &#8212; they are fundamentally computational, logical. but if the influence is limited to the critique&#8230; how is that acceptable for games when not so for film?<\/p>\n<p>Gee: but modding as part of the game &#8212; increasingly design is built into the play. a great way for meta-understanding<\/p>\n<p>Zimmerman: range of strategies &#8212; information, simulation, design, interest (e.g. SimCity)<\/p>\n<p>Gee: also, preparation for future learning &#8212; &#8220;failure&#8221; now may prep for future success. <strong>motivation<\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Zimmerman: and also changes in behavior, beyond the player and the game system to the larger context. whether the subject matter or the gameplay.<\/p>\n<p>Gee: future of game designers will be community designers.<\/p>\n<p>Zimmerman: single-player game as a historical anomaly<\/p>\n<p>Gee, channeling Jenkins: It&#8217;s a baby boomer attitude to take the game out of the context of convergent media.<\/p>\n<p>Zimmerman: challenge of games that aim to break the frame and relate to the world &#8212; games like Pokemon that catch on are hard to design backwards; games are often emergent.<\/p>\n<p>Gee: some things that one might learn is that Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh are systems with blank spaces for people to fill in (both the social\/community and also the story)<\/p>\n<p>Zimmerman: danger of G4C is that they&#8217;re &#8220;heavy,&#8221; &#8220;pedantic&#8221; &#8212; understanding play is the seeds of efficacy. Always a structure to play <em>against<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>Gee as Portal fanboy: &#8220;The game is designed to change the way players approach, manipulate, and surmise the possibilities in a given environment&#8221; &#8212; marketing description of <em>Portal<\/em>. Game offers you a tool to look at the world in a different way.<\/p>\n<p>Zimmerman: Portal points out the difficulty. <em>Portal <\/em>succeeds because it&#8217;s a fictional, self-contained world. The unsolved problem: translating what we know about a closed system of a game into the kinds of issues we want to tackle within these games.<\/p>\n<p>Gee: Learning sciences point to people learning best when triggering emotion. Perhaps the real win for social issue games.<\/p>\n<p>Gee: We&#8217;ve reached the limit of realism in games. Japanese anime games are deeper emotionally because they are semiotic spaces &#8212; raising questions like what constitutes you as human? Get a lot of mileage out of using art assets, not realism.<\/p>\n<p>Gee: Games as documentary of your story.<\/p>\n<p>Zimmerman: Game industry chasing cinema &#8212; &#8220;cinema envy&#8221; &#8212; we should seek pleasures unique to games.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Gee: &#8220;World of complex systems that is biting us, and biting us bad.&#8221; e.g. peak oil =&gt; biofuel =&gt; no water \/ no food =&gt; failed states =&gt; end of global economy Zimmerman: industry (19th century), information (20th), the Ludic &hellip; <a href=\"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/games\/2008\/06\/03\/g4c2008-jim-gee-vs-eric-zimmerman\/\">Continue reading <span class=\"meta-nav\">&rarr;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1658,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[113393,2958],"tags":[113395],"class_list":["post-55","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-archival","category-theory","tag-systems-thinking-2"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/games\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/55","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/games\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/games\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/games\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1658"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/games\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=55"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/games\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/55\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":373,"href":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/games\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/55\/revisions\/373"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/games\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=55"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/games\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=55"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/games\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=55"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}