{"id":4608,"date":"2003-10-06T06:52:04","date_gmt":"2003-10-06T10:52:04","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/blogs.law.harvard.edu\/formerlyknownas\/2003\/10\/06\/tracking-down-the-source-of-w"},"modified":"2011-08-05T15:00:37","modified_gmt":"2011-08-05T19:00:37","slug":"tracking-down-the-source-of-wacky-debtor-legalisms","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/ethicalesq\/2003\/10\/06\/tracking-down-the-source-of-wacky-debtor-legalisms\/","title":{"rendered":"Tracking Down the Source of Wacky Debtor Legalisms"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><a name='a319'><\/a><\/p>\n<p><FONT face=\"Arial\" size=\"3\"><br \/>\n<DIV><FONT face=\"Arial\"><FONT size=\"2\">Don&#8217;t you hate it when a writer complains about all the dangerous stuff out there on the internet, but doesn&#8217;t provide even one link&nbsp;to substantiate the claim?&nbsp; Well, I do, and I was too wound up for sleeping at about 4 AM today, when I&nbsp;encountered the&nbsp;<EM>ABA&nbsp;Journal<\/EM> <A href=\"http:\/\/www.abanet.org\/journal\/redesign\/10nucc.html\">article<\/A>,&nbsp;<EM><STRONG>Say What? Web&#8217;s Loopy Lingo: Debtors Hop on the Internet for Bogus Legalisms and Wacky Wording <\/STRONG><\/EM><\/FONT><\/FONT><FONT face=\"Arial\" size=\"2\">(by Margaret Graham Tebo, Oct. 6, 2003).&nbsp; So, I did some of&nbsp;reporter Tebo&#8217;s homework through the sophisticated research technique of sticking her &#8220;whacky&#8221; phrases into my Google task bar window, in the hope of finding the sources of alleged UPL.<\/FONT><\/DIV><br \/>\n<DIV><FONT face=\"Arial\" size=\"2\"><\/FONT>&nbsp;<\/DIV><br \/>\n<DIV><FONT face=\"Arial\" size=\"2\">It looks like I found a few places for bar counsel and other deputies in the unauthorized practice&nbsp;police to start foraging.&nbsp; Indeed, I might have scrounged up some work for the Texas UPL posse, which embarrassed itself by going after self-help software in <EM><A href=\"http:\/\/www.nolo.com\/texas\/\">Nolo v. Texas<\/A><\/EM>&nbsp;<\/FONT><FONT face=\"Arial\" size=\"2\">[check out our <A href=\"http:\/\/blogs.law.harvard.edu\/ethicalesq\/stories\/storyReader$90\">Unauthorized Practice<\/A> Resources page<\/FONT><FONT face=\"Arial\" size=\"2\">]<\/FONT><\/DIV><br \/>\n<DIV><FONT face=\"Arial\" size=\"2\"><\/FONT>&nbsp;<\/DIV><br \/>\n<DIV><FONT face=\"Arial\" color=\"#000000\" size=\"2\">According to the <EM>Journal <\/EM>article, lawyers for creditors, including Austin attorney Manuel H. Newburger,&nbsp;have been facing a myriad of strange new defenses.<\/FONT><\/DIV><br \/>\n<UL><br \/>\n<LI><FONT face=\"Arial\" color=\"#000000\" size=\"2\">Debtors were responding to collection attempts with letters&#x2014;crammed with legalese&#x2014;claiming that under UCC Art. 1, the <U>debtors were their own creditors<\/U>, and the debts were therefore invalid. <\/FONT><br \/>\n<LI><FONT size=\"2\"><FONT face=\"Arial\" color=\"black\">&#8220;Other debtors claimed they had <U>copyrighted their names<\/U> and refused permission for the creditor to use the names on court filings, collection letters or other documents.&#8221;<\/FONT> <\/FONT><br \/>\n<LI><FONT size=\"2\"><FONT face=\"Arial\">Still other debtors &#8212; dubbed the &#8220;<U>comma people<\/U>&#8221; &#8212; claimed that documents were invalid if a comma was placed after their name, while many used similar out-of context legal phrases, like &#x201C;notice to the principal is notice to the agent,&#x201D; or &#x201C;implied contract by waiver of tort.&#x201D;<\/FONT> <\/FONT><br \/>\n<LI><FONT size=\"2\"><FONT face=\"Arial\">Another subset of debtors claimed that they owed no debt because the original loan was <U>not made in gold or silver<\/U>, the only legitimate legal tender; and<\/FONT> <\/FONT><br \/>\n<LI><FONT face=\"Arial\" size=\"2\">Probably the most aggravating group, retaliated by <U>placing commercial liens<\/U> on the lawyers and employees of the creditors (including the IRS)<\/FONT><\/LI><\/UL><br \/>\n<P dir=\"ltr\"><FONT face=\"Arial\"><FONT size=\"2\">Attorney Newburger advocates taking a hardline.&nbsp;&nbsp; According to the <EM>Journal<\/EM>, he says creditor attorneys should <FONT color=\"black\">demand to know where the debtor got the forms and pseudo-legal language: <\/FONT><\/FONT><\/FONT><\/P><br \/>\n<BLOCKQUOTE><br \/>\n<P dir=\"ltr\"><FONT face=\"Arial\" color=\"#000000\" size=\"2\">&#x201C;Someone&#x2019;s out there committing the unauthorized practice of law, and the way to stop this nonsense is to pursue the perpetrators.&#x201D; <\/FONT><\/P><\/BLOCKQUOTE><br \/>\n<P dir=\"ltr\"><FONT size=\"2\">For me, it seems a bit incongruous that lawyers for creditors are complaining about documents &#8220;crammed with legalese.&#8221;&nbsp;&nbsp; Nonetheless, frivolous claims are just as unacceptable when brought by <EM>pro-se <\/EM>consumers as when brought by corporate counsel or tort lawyers.&nbsp;&nbsp; Furthermore, if the debtors are in fact acting in good faith after being coached or instructed by non-lawyers, UPL investigations may indeed be in order.<\/FONT><\/P><br \/>\n<P dir=\"ltr\"><SPAN style=\"FONT-SIZE: 8pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Courier New'\"><SPAN style=\"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt\"><FONT size=\"2\">With that in mind, I suggest bar counsel or association &#8220;consumer protection&#8221; committees take a look at:<\/FONT><\/SPAN><\/P><br \/>\n<P style=\"LINE-HEIGHT: normal\"><SPAN style=\"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt\"><FONT size=\"2\">1) <SPAN style=\"LETTER-SPACING: -0.15pt\"><SPAN style=\"mso-field-code: 'MERGEFIELD Court_Address_State'\">The Verified Actual and Constructive <A href=\"http:\/\/www.his.com\/~jmunson\/ccm5.htm\">Notice<\/A><\/SPAN><\/SPAN>&nbsp;<\/FONT><FONT size=\"2\">of one &#8220;Jon Carl; Munson II,&#8221; and his&nbsp;Affidavit for Post Judgment <A href=\"http:\/\/www.his.com\/~jmunson\/ccm1.htm\">Relief<\/A><SPAN style=\"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold\">,<FONT size=\"2\"> filed in Montgomery County, Maryland, which contain frequent use of the phrase &#8220;Notice to the Principal is Notice to the Agent (citing Exodus 20:15, 16), and claim that the original loan is invalid because not made in gold.<\/FONT><\/SPAN><\/FONT><\/SPAN><\/P><br \/>\n<P style=\"LINE-HEIGHT: normal\"><SPAN style=\"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt\"><FONT size=\"2\">2) A constitutional challenge&nbsp;&nbsp;to the legality of <\/FONT><A href=\"http:\/\/www.lbduk.org\/3rd%20Appelatte%20FORMAL%20CONSTITUTIONAL%20CHALENGE.htm\"><FONT size=\"2\">child suppor<\/FONT><\/A><FONT size=\"2\">t, in California, by Charles Lindsay; Cheney Jr., SuiJuris-At Law.&nbsp; <\/FONT><\/SPAN><\/P><\/SPAN><FONT size=\"2\">3) The <A href=\"http:\/\/www.buildfreedom.com\/tl\/law01.shtml\">article<\/A>&nbsp;<\/FONT><FONT size=\"2\"><EM>SLAVES, WHINERS, EVADERS, REDNECKS, MEN &amp; WOMEN<\/EM>,&nbsp;by Don Smith, which gives advice about dealing with debt collectors of all types, including the IRS.&nbsp; Its introduction states that &#8220;Don Smith is editor of <EM>AntiShyster<\/EM>&nbsp;[and] is a legal practitioner who sometimes uses a letterhead which states &#8216;Unauthorized Practice of Law&#8217;.&#8221;<\/FONT><br \/>\n<P align=\"left\"><FONT size=\"2\">4)&nbsp;<A href=\"http:\/\/www.antishyster.com\">AntiShyster Magazine<\/A><\/FONT><FONT size=\"2\">, and its policy statement&nbsp;<\/FONT><FONT size=\"2\">on <A href=\"http:\/\/www.antishyster.com\/about_advice.htm\">Legal Advice<\/A>: <\/FONT><\/P><br \/>\n<BLOCKQUOTE><br \/>\n<P align=\"left\"><B><FONT size=\"2\">The <U>ONLY<\/U> legal advice that Suspicions and\/or AntiShyster news magazines and web sites offer is this:<\/FONT><\/B><\/P><br \/>\n<P align=\"left\"><FONT size=\"2\">Any attempt to learn to cope with our modern judicial system must be tempered with the sure and certain knowledge that modern &#8220;law&#8221; is always a crapshoot. That is, <I>nothing<\/I> &#8211; not even brown paper bags filled with hundred dollar bills and handed to the judge &#8211; will absolutely guarantee your victory in a judicial trial or administrative hearing. The most you can ever hope for is to improve the <I>probability<\/I> that you may win.<\/FONT><\/P><br \/>\n<P align=\"left\"><FONT size=\"2\">Therefore, do not depend on the articles, links or advertisements within <I>Suspicions<\/I> or&nbsp; <EM>AntiShyster <\/EM>news magazines or web sites to illustrate anything more than the opinions or experiences of others trying to escape, survive, improve, attack, or even make sense of &#8220;the best judicial system in the world&#8221;.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/FONT><\/P><br \/>\n<P align=\"left\"><FONT size=\"2\">But don&#8217;t be discouraged; there&#8217;s not another precisely accurate publication on law in the entire U.S.A. &#8211; except the Bible.<\/FONT><\/P><\/BLOCKQUOTE><br \/>\n<P><FONT size=\"2\">5) The article&nbsp;<\/FONT><FONT size=\"2\"><EM><A href=\"http:\/\/www.buildfreedom.com\/tl\/comliens.shtml\">Commercial Liens: A Most Potent Weapon<\/A><\/EM>, edited by Terra Libra staff.<\/FONT><\/P><br \/>\n<P><FONT size=\"2\">Some of these legal theories may be familiar to the followers of our esteemed <A href=\"http:\/\/www.instapundit.com\/\">Instapundit<\/A>, who might be able to point the UPL authorities to a few other likely suspects (even if it means revealing a source).&nbsp; <\/FONT><\/P><br \/>\n<BLOCKQUOTE><br \/>\n<P dir=\"ltr\"><FONT face=\"Arial\"><FONT size=\"2\"><STRONG>P.S. to Mom<\/STRONG>:&nbsp; I wanted to show off my new expertise on the <A href=\"http:\/\/civpro.blogs.com\/civil_procedure\/2003\/10\/mystery_of_the_.html#comments\">Rules of Pig Scrambles<\/A>, but it just never came up for this posting.&nbsp; Please don&#8217;t worry about my having another sleepless night weblogging.&nbsp; I would have been awake anyway, and maybe those UPL&nbsp;zealots will go check out the debtor <\/FONT><\/FONT><FONT face=\"Arial\" size=\"2\">wackos, and leave the serious self-help and alternative legal services providers alone.&nbsp; I regret that I have&nbsp;but one night to give for my consumers.&nbsp; <\/FONT><\/P><\/BLOCKQUOTE><\/FONT><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Don&#8217;t you hate it when a writer complains about all the dangerous stuff out there on the internet, but doesn&#8217;t provide even one link&nbsp;to substantiate the claim?&nbsp; Well, I do, and I was too wound up for sleeping at about 4 AM today, when I&nbsp;encountered the&nbsp;ABA&nbsp;Journal article,&nbsp;Say What? Web&#8217;s Loopy Lingo: Debtors Hop on the [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":94,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2},"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[2926],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-4608","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-pre-06-2006"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p6kP1R-1ck","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/ethicalesq\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4608","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/ethicalesq\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/ethicalesq\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/ethicalesq\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/94"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/ethicalesq\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4608"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/ethicalesq\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4608\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":14108,"href":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/ethicalesq\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4608\/revisions\/14108"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/ethicalesq\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4608"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/ethicalesq\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=4608"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/ethicalesq\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=4608"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}