{"id":4340,"date":"2003-08-25T15:37:35","date_gmt":"2003-08-25T19:37:35","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/blogs.law.harvard.edu\/formerlyknownas\/2003\/08\/25\/finding-self-help-info-on-bar"},"modified":"2011-08-05T15:00:43","modified_gmt":"2011-08-05T19:00:43","slug":"finding-self-help-info-on-bar-association-websites-good-luck","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/ethicalesq\/2003\/08\/25\/finding-self-help-info-on-bar-association-websites-good-luck\/","title":{"rendered":"Finding Self-Help Info on Bar Association Websites (Good Luck!)"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><a name=\"a220\"><\/a><\/p>\n<div><span style=\"font-family: Arial\">Clicking the &#8220;Public\/Consumer Resources&#8221; button on bar association websites can quickly turn Pollyanna Advocate into <em>skepticalEsq!<\/em>.\u00a0 It is rare to find a bar\u00a0group that lets the public know about viable alternatives to hiring a lawyer for solving legal problems. <\/span><\/div>\n<div><span style=\"font-family: Arial\">.<\/span><\/div>\n<div><span style=\"font-family: Arial\"><br \/>\n<\/span><\/div>\n<div><span style=\"font-family: Arial\">The defensively plaintive refrain I hear when raising this issue is &#8220;Gee, you don&#8217;t expect us to put ourselves out of business, do you?&#8221;\u00a0\u00a0 No, I don&#8217;t.\u00a0 <em>But<\/em>, I do expect responsible &#8220;counsellors&#8221; and advisors to fulfill their professional and fiduciary duty\u00a0by giving consumers\u00a0<em>objective information about\u00a0the various ways to solve\u00a0a legal problem<\/em>.<em> <\/em><\/span><\/div>\n<p>.<\/p>\n<div><span style=\"font-family: Arial\">With that standard in mind, let&#8217;s look at some examples from cyberspace involving information on self-help resources.\u00a0 [My search could not be even close to exhaustive, so I hope visitors will let me know of examples, both the good and the bad.]<\/span><\/div>\n<div><span style=\"font-family: Arial\">.<br \/>\n<\/span><\/div>\n<div><span style=\"font-family: Arial\">Starting on a positive note, I invite bar association\u00a0officials and webmasters to view the <a href=\"http:\/\/www.sccba.com\/legalconsumer\/\">Santa Clara County (California) Bar Association<\/a> website. <\/span><span style=\"font-family: Arial\"> When you click on Lawyer Referral\/Public Resources, you get a drop-down menu that lets you access its <span style=\"text-decoration: underline\">Self-Help Center\/Legal Consumer Resource Center<\/span>.\u00a0 The introduction rightly claims uniqueness for the site, which offers over 130 links in several categories, including alternative dispute resolution, small claims and traffic court, and individual areas of law:<\/span><\/div>\n<blockquote>\n<div><span style=\"font-family: Arial;color: black\">The Internet provides vast resources for self-help with legal matters. The Santa Clara County Bar Association is pleased to provide this unique Center for the public to assist you in more easily and efficiently helping yourself. This is a comprehensive gateway to on-line information about the law, legal procedure, and legal documents.<\/p>\n<p>Though there are many simple legal matters, which you may be able to handle without the assistance of a lawyer, we strongly recommend that for the majority of legal maters an individual should seek the assistance of a lawyer; the law can be more complicated than it seems and court procedure more exacting than a non-lawyer can be expected to know. Even a consultation with a lawyer before deciding to represent yourself can be important to a successful resolution of your legal issue.<\/p>\n<p><\/span><\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n<div><span style=\"font-family: Arial\"><span style=\"color: black\">This o<\/span>pen-minded view toward self-help options is far different than the <span style=\"text-decoration: underline\">silence or scare tactics found far more often on bar websites<\/span>.\u00a0 <em>E.g.<\/em>, the <strong>Ohio<\/strong> State Bar Association website offers a Consumer Resources LawFacts Pamphlet, &#8220;<a href=\"http:\/\/www.ohiobar.org\/pub\/lawfacts\/index.asp?articleid=2\">Attorneys<\/a>.&#8221;\u00a0\u00a0 There is no direct mention of self-help alternatives in the brochure.\u00a0 Instead, you&#8217;ll find this message:<\/span><\/div>\n<blockquote>\n<div>\n<div><span style=\"font-family: Arial\">Remember that when you have a legal problem, you should go to a lawyer. Be wary of advice and opinions from persons who are not lawyers. To consult someone who is not an attorney about a legal problem is always risky and often costly. Generally, no two legal problems are exactly alike.<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n<div dir=\"ltr\"><span style=\"font-family: Arial\">More strikingly, the <strong>New York<\/strong> State Bar Association pamphlet <\/span><a href=\"http:\/\/www.nysba.org\/Content\/NavigationMenu\/Public_Resources\/Educational_Pamphlets\/yourlawyer.pdf\">\u201c<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/www.nysba.org\/AM\/Template.cfm?Section=LegalEASE_Informational_Pamphlets&amp;template=\/ECommerce\/ProductDisplay.cfm&amp;ProductID=1129\">You and Your Lawyer<\/a>\u201c<span style=\"font-family: Arial\"> <\/span><span style=\"font-family: Arial\">(which we gave our <a href=\"http:\/\/blogs.law.harvard.edu\/ethicalesq\/2003\/08\/09\">Judee<\/a> Pamphleteering Award on\u00a0August 9, 2003) <\/span><span style=\"font-family: Arial\">contains the following section (emphasis added):<\/span><\/div>\n<blockquote><p><strong><span style=\"font-family: Arial\">Why you should not seek to handle your own legal affairs <\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong><span style=\"font-family: Arial\">.<br \/>\n<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-family: Arial\">A number of do-it-yourself &#8220;kits&#8221; are offered for sale from time to time. Kits are available for getting a divorce, declaring bankruptcy, or forming a business. <span style=\"text-decoration: underline\">It&#8217;s not illegal <\/span>for you to use these for your own affairs; <span style=\"text-decoration: underline\">however, you risk paying the consequences<\/span>. Kits may appear to save you money, but a minor detail, one that you might overlook but one that a lawyer is trained to notice, could result in <span style=\"text-decoration: underline\">a loss far greater than what you &#8220;save&#8221;<\/span> by trying to be your own lawyer. After all, there&#8217;s an old saying, even for lawyers, that &#8220;<span style=\"text-decoration: underline\">he who represents himself has a fool for a client<\/span>.&#8221;<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<div><span style=\"font-family: Arial\">The NYSBA pamphlet\u00a0<span style=\"font-family: Arial\"><em>The Attorney&#8217;s Role in <a href=\"http:\/\/www.nysba.org\/Content\/NavigationMenu\/Public_Resources\/Educational_Pamphlets\/The.Attorney's.Role.in.Buying.or.Selling.a.House.pdf\">Buying or Selling A House<\/a><\/em><\/span> <span style=\"font-family: Arial\">uses\u00a0a similar strategy.\u00a0\u00a0 It starts with the question &#8220;Do I Need an Attorney?&#8221;, then lists in detail 10 transactions (from dealing with the broker, to arranging financing, to searching title, and conducting the closing) that are part of the process.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0It baldly asserts that\u00a0a<span style=\"font-family: Arial\">n attorney &#8220;usually has more experience dealing\u00a0with them than any other service providers for the transaction.&#8221;\u00a0\u00a0 The pamphlet\u00a0concludes\u00a0with the statement:<\/span> &#8220;An attorney&#8217;s help and guidance are essential from the time you decide to buy a house until the actual closing. [all-caps,\u00a0bold\u00a0 blue print] That&#8217;s Why You Need an Attorney.&#8221;<\/span><\/span><\/div>\n<div>\n<ul>\n<li><span style=\"font-family: Arial\">A fairer approach to the same topic can be found in the online brochure <span style=\"font-family: Arial\"><em>What Should I Know <a href=\"http:\/\/www.calbar.ca.gov\/state\/calbar\/calbar_generic.jsp?sImagePath=House.gif&amp;sCategoryPath=\/Home\/Public%20Services\/Consumer%20Information\/Pamphlets&amp;sHeading=Buying%20a%20House&amp;sFileType=HTML&amp;sCatHtmlPath=html\/Pamphlets_Buying-House.html\">Before I Buy a House<\/a> <\/em><\/span><span style=\"font-family: Arial\">from the <strong>California<\/strong> State Bar.\u00a0 It explains many aspects of buying process and states &#8220;If\u00a0you are not sure that you understand all of your rights and responsibilities, it is advisable to see an attorney who is experienced in the purchase of residential real estate. An attorney can help you with legal and tax questions that come up during the purchase of the home, and can assist you in reviewing all of the documents and reports that will be provided to you in the process of purchasing the home.&#8221; <\/span><\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><span style=\"font-family: Arial\"><br \/>\n<\/span><\/p>\n<div><span style=\"font-family: Arial\"> <\/span><span style=\"font-family: Arial\">Unfortunately, the Public Resources sections of many other bar association websites have information limited to Grievance Procedures, the group&#8217;s own Lawyer Referral system, and <em>pro bono<\/em> resources (for the indigent and other disadvantaged groups).\u00a0\u00a0 That&#8217;s true from the <span style=\"font-family: Arial\"><a href=\"http:\/\/www.lacba.org\/showpage.cfm?pageid=1718\">Los Angeles<\/a> County Bar Association,<\/span><span style=\"font-family: Arial\"> <\/span><\/span><span style=\"font-family: Arial\">to the <a href=\"http:\/\/www.sfbar.org\/vlsp\/general.html\">San Franciso <\/a>Bar, <\/span><span style=\"font-family: Arial\">to the Association of the Bar of the <a href=\"http:\/\/www.abcny.org\/\">City of New York<\/a> . <\/span><\/div>\n<p><span style=\"font-family: Arial\"><br \/>\n<\/span><\/p>\n<div><span style=\"font-family: Arial\"> <\/span><span style=\"font-family: Arial\"><span style=\"font-family: Arial\"> <\/span><\/span><\/div>\n<div><span style=\"font-family: Arial\"><span style=\"font-family: Arial\">The prevalent attitude is clearly\u00a0shown on the NYSBA <a href=\"http:\/\/www.nysba.org\/Content\/NavigationMenu\/Public_Resources\/Lawyer_Referral\/Lawyer_Referral.htm\">Lawyer Referral<\/a> Page: <\/span><\/span><\/div>\n<blockquote>\n<div><span style=\"font-family: Arial\"><span style=\"font-family: Arial\">&#8220;Remember, if you have a legal problem, you should have legal representation. The Lawyer Referral and Information Service is designed to serve anyone who can afford the services of a lawyer. Persons who have a legal problem and cannot afford a lawyer should contact the Legal Aid office in their community.&#8221;<\/span><\/span><\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"font-family: Arial\"> <\/span><\/p>\n<div><span style=\"font-family: Arial\">The consistent <strong>Message<\/strong> from bar associations to consumers:\u00a0 &#8220;<span style=\"text-decoration: underline\">If you can afford a lawyer you should hire one.\u00a0 Only the indigent cannot afford a lawyer.<\/span>&#8220;<\/span><\/div>\n<div><span style=\"font-family: Arial\"> <\/span><\/div>\n<div><span style=\"font-family: Arial\">Bar associations who want to improve the information they are giving the public on alternatives to retaining a full-service lawyer, can find a good model at the Santa Clara County Bar Association site, highlighted above.\u00a0\u00a0 They should also look at the <a href=\"http:\/\/www.abanet.org\/legalservices\/findlegalhelp\/home.html\">ABA Consumer&#8217;s Guide<\/a> to Legal Help on the Internet, <\/span><span style=\"font-family: Arial\">which tells visitors:\u00a0 &#8220;You may decide that the legal matter is simple and that you want to try to handle it yourself. Or you may feel that you can&#8217;t afford to hire a lawyer to handle the entire matter, and that you&#8217;d like to do part of the work yourself. If this is your situation, see our &#8220;Self Help&#8221; <\/span><span style=\"font-family: Arial\"><span style=\"font-family: Arial\">page for more information.&#8221;<\/span><\/span><\/div>\n<div><span style=\"font-family: Arial\"><span style=\"font-family: Arial\">.<br \/>\n<\/span><\/span><\/div>\n<div><span style=\"font-family: Arial\"> <\/span><\/div>\n<div><span style=\"font-family: Arial\">Consumers visiting the excellent <a href=\"http:\/\/www.abanet.org\/legalservices\/findlegalhelp\/selfhelp.html\">ABA Self-Help page<\/a> <\/span><span style=\"font-family: Arial\">will find plain-English, sensible advice for deciding whether they can\u00a0represent themselves, finding assistance and materials such as forms and how-to guides, understanding the concept of &#8220;unbundling&#8221; (in a section captioned Hire a Lawyer to Do Part of the Work), and locating lawyers willing to\u00a0perform discrete tasks for clients. <\/span><\/div>\n<div><span style=\"font-family: Arial;font-size: x-small\"> <\/span><\/div>\n<div><span style=\"font-family: Arial\">With\u00a0positive examples from the relatively\u00a0small SCCBA and the giant\u00a0ABA, there really is <strong>no excuse<\/strong> for bar association websites to be so barren\u00a0or hostile on the topic of self-help law, alternative dispute resolution, or unbundling of services. <\/span> <span style=\"font-family: Arial\">If lawyers and their associations are not willing to use websites to truly inform\u00a0consumers about their options, they should\u00a0at least delete all the pious statements about putting the client&#8217;s interests first, living up to the highest standards of ethics, and\u00a0existing to serve the public. <\/span><\/div>\n<div><span style=\"font-family: Arial\">.<br \/>\n<\/span><\/div>\n<div><span style=\"font-family: Arial\"> <\/span><\/div>\n<div><span style=\"font-family: Arial\">Instead, bar association websites might conspicuously post this disclaimer: <\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<blockquote>\n<div><span style=\"font-family: Arial\"><strong>Warning<\/strong>:\u00a0 We are a guild, here to serve the\u00a0economic interests of our members.\u00a0 We&#8217;ll\u00a0fight (&#8217;til your last dollar) to protect you from any legal adversary and to secure your legal rights.\u00a0 However, when it comes to your financial interests versus our own, we will put ours first whenever possible. <\/span><\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Clicking the &#8220;Public\/Consumer Resources&#8221; button on bar association websites can quickly turn Pollyanna Advocate into skepticalEsq!.\u00a0 It is rare to find a bar\u00a0group that lets the public know about viable alternatives to hiring a lawyer for solving legal problems. . The defensively plaintive refrain I hear when raising this issue is &#8220;Gee, you don&#8217;t expect [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":94,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[2926],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-4340","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-pre-06-2006"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p6kP1R-180","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/ethicalesq\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4340","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/ethicalesq\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/ethicalesq\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/ethicalesq\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/94"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/ethicalesq\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4340"}],"version-history":[{"count":4,"href":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/ethicalesq\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4340\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":11558,"href":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/ethicalesq\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4340\/revisions\/11558"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/ethicalesq\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4340"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/ethicalesq\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=4340"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/archive.blogs.harvard.edu\/ethicalesq\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=4340"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}